Is GSP "ducking" the Middleweight Division?
by bcpjkell on Apr 8, 2010 4:23 AM EDT
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Hey guys. I posted this on Bloody Elbow a few weeks ago, and it garnered significant attention, so I'd thought I'd share it here at WKR.
UFC champs BJ Penn, Georges St. Pierre, and Anderson Silva have all handily beaten the top competitors in their respective division, and, as expected, the question arises for each of them: "What now?" The answer the fans all want is for each of them to move up a weight class and find new challenges there. Silva has fought at 205 twice and Penn was once the welterweight champion, and both seem enthusiastic to continue pursuing challenges at higher weight classes. GSP, on the other hand, has never really embraced the idea.
When he talks about it, he seems to offer a lot of excuses, like about how he needs time to put on the muscle correctly, or that he can't fight in two weight classes at once. Nothing taken from GSP, he is by far the most dominant welterweight on the planet, but with all this talk about wanting to be the best fighter ever, why has he seemed so disinterested in fighting at 185?
May I offer the suggestion that maybe St. Pierre is afraid to lose? Since his loss to Matt Serra, GSP has been noticeably more conservative in his fighting style, which was especially evident in his decision victory over Dan Hardy at UFC 111. Fight fans and analysts expected GSP to tear through Hardy on the ground, which he did, but he didn't deliver the brutal ground and pound or highlight reel submission many expected. It has been a very long time since we've seen one of GSP's flashy spin kicks, like he used earlier in his career. Why?
Georges St. Pierre honestly wants to be the greatest fighter of all time, and in his opinion, he can't afford another black mark on his record. The aforementioned weapons that GSP used to use so frequently have dwindled because they are risky, and risky isn't something he wants. The move up to middleweight is an extremely risky one, as St. Pierre realizes he's going to be at a size and strength disadvantage against most, if not all his opponents. If, and it's a big if, GSP does move up to the middleweight division, he's going to need to be 100% mentally ready. St. Pierre will not be in that state until he believes he is guaranteed to win. Or, perhaps more importantly, guaranteed to not lose.
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Why do you want to see GSP at MW
if it’s going to be less than his fullest effort? Just because BJ is a dumbass and decided to eat his way to HW to fight Lyoto? GSP himself has said he is gaining more muscle mass and eventually the cut to WW will be too hard, in which case he will be a MW. You’re criticising a professional athlete for not wanting to perform at 100%, and it’s getting to be pretty fucking retarded.
And you really can’t compare BJ, Anderson, and GSP’s situations. BJ is BJJ world champion, Anderson is a fucking artist when it comes to striking, and GSP is a wrestler. Weight in BJJ isn’t that big of a deal (see: Absolute Division, ADCC), and Anderson’s arms are long enough that his striking will keep anyone save Lesnar and Carwin (maybe Bones) at bay… but wrestling is different.
Amateur wrestling has very strict weight classes: 125 lb, 133 lb, 141 lb, 149 lb, 157 lb, 165 lb, 174 lb, 184 lb, 197 lb and HW (weight limit is 285); for the most part about 8-9 lbs between each. Most 165 lb wrestlers jump to WW, so if GSP were an amateur wrestler (and it’s a pretty safe assumption that GSP would be in the 165 lb weight class) he would be jumping two weight classes to fight Anderson, which is completely unheard of.
Wrestling is all about positional control, which is affected in no small part by how strong you are, and how much you can out-muscle the other guy. If Georges feels that he will lose his ability to control the position the fight takes place in, what use is there in moving up a weight class? Nobody asks Anderson to fight with one arm, but that — in my mind — is exactly what all these Neanderthals clamouring for GSP to jump weight before he is ready are doing.
"It’s going to be like sex with a grizzly bear, you know, a lot of scratching and growling on both sides." - Don Frye
Has anyone thought about who they want GSP to fight at MW?
Lots of people want to see GSP vs Anderson Silva (I don’t want to see that because Silva is too big, tall, fast, and heavy for GSP). Besides that, I haven’t read any discussion of other fights that would be a dream matchup for GSP at MW. Silva has made MW look like a lackluster division whether it truly is or not. Even if Silva left MW and GSP could dominate all those bigger guys GSP would still never get out from under Silva’s shadow because GSP isn’t a KO artist on Silva’s level. So there’s no good reason for GSP to move to MW except for an occassional superfight. But what superfight besides versus Silva?
BJ Penn is a P4P talent beyond exception. But he is one of the exceptions and there are few fighters that can move up and down divisions like he does. So don’t expect GSP to actually be capable of pulling off the same feat. Anderson Silva isn’t moving up in weight so much as not cutting huge weight (similar to Rich Franklin). By Dana White’s account he’s big enough to be in heavyweight.
Penn wants to move to WW because he wants to avenge his loss to GSP and possibly because he can get bigger paydays from fighting popular WW fighters. Silva wants to move to LHW (or does he? He handpicked Irvin because he’s slow and short and Griffin is slow with a glass jaw) because there are stars at LHW and he can get more recognition and better paydays by fighting popular fighters at LHW (Rampage, Rashad, etc.).
I think Silva is really full of s**t because if he wanted to move to LHW permanently then he would have relinquished the belt (after a legacy of dominating title defenses) and moved up already. UFC is trying to get him to move to LHW but what is holding him back?
Btw, good analysis Excelsior!
GSP fight at MW? It won't happen...
until GSP decides he is ready. He is a perfectionist and would not stoop to the desires of a few critics trying to “double dog dare” him to moving up. B.J. moved up over a grudge to fight GSP and (if anyone needs a reminder) got destroyed. The way Anderson has been fighting I am starting to think the LT Heavy fights are a way to help close out his contract.
GSP is a very cerebral fighter who, dispite fighting how people think he should, uses areas he knows are the opponents weaknesses and punishes them for having it. The B.J. fight exemplifies this how he started by striking (which he is far better at than Penn) and finished by mopping the floor with him at B.J.’s strength.
I understand looking at it from a fans view, but look at it from an educated fans perspective as well.
i'd buy this if
the ww division weren’t so damn tough. i’ll take silva or gsp any day of the week, but i think silva chose 185 because he knew there weren’t many real threats. the only fight i’d really like to see for gsp in mw is silva, maybe maia for the style matchup.
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