Zuffa has the right idea when it comes to officiating, BYOP
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 22, 2010 8:00 AM EDT
in Opinion
Email
Print
Strikeforce made its Texas debut on Saturday but not without its own bit of controversy. Let me give Strikeforce praise for the parts that I enjoyed. I loved the circa-1990 NWA entrance ramp. I loved the Kennedy/Jacare fights and I loved the night of upsets. That's pretty much it. The display by the referees and other officials during the night were frankly embarrassing. As much as the MMA media and fans like to slag on the "Big Bad Zuffa", they have it right when it comes to promoting events outside of major MMA hotbed, "Bring your own People".
In the opening match, you had Strikeforce "prospect" and former WWE wrestler Bobby Lashley taking on Chad Griggs. Two key issues stuck out like a sore thumb during the match. The first was after the first round when Lashley went back to his corner with a cut under his left eye from a Griggs uppercut. The name of the cutman that "worked" (and I used that liberally) on Lashley's cut, but the effects of the "job" played a key part in the finish of the fight. In most Zuffa events, cutmen Jacob "Stitch" Duran and Leon "Cutman" Tabbs do a wonderful job stopping the bleeding of cuts and getting fighters ready to get back into the fight. Unfortunately for Lashley, they were not there and his cut continued to unnecessarily bleed which led directly into the second error.
Lashley had Griggs in mount which is the most dominant position for a fighter especially a wrestler of Lashley's caliber. Ref Jon Schorle stopped the fight in that position to check the cut on Lashley. That itself was a dumb decision, but he went on to compound it. He then restarts the fight standing. That's right, he punishes Lashley by making him give up his dominant position. It didn't get any better in the next fight when referee Kelly Halley's passivity cost Jorge Gurgel extra punishment and an illegal knee to boot. It set a bad tone for the night of programming for a promotion that is struggling to hold onto relevance in the greater landscape of MMA.
Zuffa, in the UFC and WEC, has the right idea. Though they operate primarily out of Vegas, when they do go on the road, they do bring along Duran and Tabbs to work the corners. Referees such as Josh Rosenthal, Herb Dean, and Mario Yamasaki also accompany Zuffa to most of their events. This is not to say that these referees are perfect, they aren't, but they don't make these rudimentary errors in fights that cost victories; at least not as often. These officials are available to Strikeforce for use and are not the exclusive property of Zuffa. It would be in the best interest of Strikeforce and the sport to consider Zuffa's mindset.
SBN coverage of Strikeforce: Houston
16 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
That's just plain ridiculous.
I’ve never seen a stand-up from the mount. I’ve seen Yves Lavigne stand a guy up from side control before(don’t remember which fight),but this is just crazy. There’s not much chatter except from fans, either.
Hadoken!!
It wasn't a stand up from mount
The ref stopped it to get his cut looked at. If he simply returned them to the same position, no harm, no foul.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on Aug 23, 2010 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Several problems here...
The Strikeforce officiating was horrible but in Texas as in most states its out of the promoter’s hands. The officials are chosen by the commission from their licensed officials. Zuffa would have been in the same boat had they been promoting a UFC event in Texas.
The only time Zuffa can technically ‘bring their own officials’ is in jurisdictions that are very loosely regulated (eg: Abu Dhabi). Even in Nevada, the commission selects the officials—since the UFC does so many events in Las Vegas that’s why there are so many familiar faces.
The only real solution to the problem of poor officiating is for the big promotions to not hold events in jurisdictions known for shoddy work by refs and judges. If states start losing big events and the money that accompanies them it could motivate them to take action.
Officials that are tied to promotions too closely opens a huge can of worms for reasons that should be readily apparent. Most states have rules that govern an official’s relationship with promoters/managers etc. In Texas they specify that refs ’can’t have a direct or indirect financial interest’ in any contestant or work for the promoter.
So like it or not, the selection of refs is out of the promotions’ hands. They could hold events only in unregulated jurisdictions which would basically undo all of the progress MMA has made as a sport. As long as MMA is under athletic commission oversight, the selection of refs won’t be delegated to the UFC or any other promotion.
by The Savage Science on Aug 22, 2010 8:33 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
UFC 103 had Big Dan, Leon Robinson, Yves, etc
as well as Stitch and Tabbs. UFC 69 also had many of the familiar UFC refs I know the commission chooses who actually refs what, I’m not saying Zuffa chooses the refs, they make sure the best refs are available to be chosen by making sure they are licensed and all the other red tape. Just like Strikeforce made sure Big John was available to ref and ref both the title fights. Apparently, theyy felt that was all they needed.
No, again, you plan events months in advance. Zuffa always makes sure the best refs that are available are licensed in that state. Strikeforce did not. Again, I know no official is tied to any organization. I would hope that you are a reader would give me the common courtesy that I understand that basic fact.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 22, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
If you are aware that Zuffa has no control of this, stop trying to imply that they do
Though they operate primarily out of Vegas, when they do go on the road, they do bring along Duran and Tabbs to work the corners. Referees such as Josh Rosenthal, Herb Dean, and Mario Yamasaki also accompany Zuffa to most of their events.
You directly tie several referees into the same group as cutmen, as if the promotion has the same level of control over both groups.
These officials are available to Strikeforce for use and are not the exclusive property of Zuffa. It would be in the best interest of Strikeforce and the sport to consider Zuffa’s mindset.
Then you close by stating, basically, that Strikeforce and other promotions should choose to use these better officials- when who refs a fight is NOT of their choice in Texas and most places.
UFC 103 had Big Dan, Leon Robinson, Yves, etc. as well as Stitch and Tabbs. UFC 69 also had many of the familiar UFC refs
So you clarify that UFC events in Texas have had better refs- implying that yes the promotions do have power over such things.
they make sure the best refs are available to be chosen by making sure they are licensed and all the other red tape…… you plan events months in advance. Zuffa always makes sure the best refs that are available are licensed in that state.
So you grasp at straws. Even though its the Athletic Commissions job to “make sure they are licensed and all the other red tape”, you try to say that Zuffa overlooks everything. And they line up refs to be available to the commission to choose- all while the official statement from Zuffa (as well as every promotion) is that they have absolutely ZERO control over who refs at events.
I know the commission chooses who actually refs what, I’m not saying Zuffa chooses the refs
“Despite me trying to convince you that Strikeforce chose who reffed their fights last night, I’ll admit it isn’t true”
Strikeforce made sure Big John was available to ref and ref both the title fights. Apparently, theyy felt that was all they needed.
“But I’m still going to say that Strikeforce chose who reffed their fights! They CHOSE Big John for the title fights, and CHOSE shitty refs for the other fights”
I would hope that you are a reader would give me the common courtesy that I understand that basic fact.
How about giving Savage Science the common courtesy not to be an ass and pretend like he is in the wrong when he calls you out on exactly what you write
by drunkinmidget781 on Aug 22, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Zuffa makes sure the best refs are licensed and available when they go to certain areas
The commissions choose from the best AVAILABLE guys. Zuffa makes sure the best guys are available. Strikeforce did not with the exception of Big Dan. You’re acting like it’s totally random. it’s not. You think it’s a coincidence that Big Dan got chosen not only to ref the main, but to ref the other title fight? Refs dont officiate matches in a row. You don’t think Strikeforce had a hand in that? You don’t think there is a reason why certain refs don’t ref the main events anymore in the UFC?
If Zuffa has a November 14th event in Texas, almost as soon as it’s planned, they are on the horn with a) the best refs, making sure they are licensed and available for that night in Texas, b) the best cutmen making sure they are licensed and available for that night, and c) on the horn with the Texas Commission saying “Hey, we’re bringing in these officials that are well versed in MMA.”
You think it’s random that when the UFC came to Texas just a year ago, they had most of the good refs and both of the best cutmen, but when SF comes a year later, neither is true. UFC can’t choose officials, they just make sure the best are available and licensed. You can check that with the commission.
UFC also had to make a special request for testing, Strikeforce did not. But isn’t testing up to the commissions? Nothing the commission does is truly independent. There are a couple states that are stubborn, but they don’t get the UFC’s business anymore.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 22, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Zuffa has any influence towards which Ref applies for licensing in x or y state (except when we are talking about, as it has been said before, loosely regulated places). Sure they can ask the ref to make sure they are licensed, but if the guy decides not to go, the comission will use the local guys. And we have seen tons of local guys throughout the years in the UFC. On top of it, the commissions will usually use the most experiences guys, which are relatively few in a fairly new sport. The more fights there will be out there, the more fights local guys get, more and more you will see local guys reffing higher profile fights.
Strikeforce always use the same cutmen, just like the UFC. It seems to me that they trust them enough to do a good job. And it is not always Stitch and Tabbs at UFC, and those guys don’t have clones as far as I know, they can’t be everywhere.
UFC does not request testing, they do testing themselves. Strikeforce is not making the kind of money that the UFC is making and thus decided to not test, as it is not their responsability. Strikeforce is also not the flag bearer for MMA, which the UFC is, and because of that they need to test themselves to show they are a clean sport.
1. The UFC made a special request for testing at UFC 103 in Dallas.
2. Of course we’ve seen local guys, the UFC can’t make sure every ref is licensed in every state. But they do make sure as many as possible are.
3. If you don’t think Zuffa has any influence with the commissions, I don’t know what to say.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 23, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
it looked to me like he was standing them up
and that checking the cut was secondary to the stand up. tho I could not hear what the ref was saying.
Either way, it's shitty reffing
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 22, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The idea that he may have stood them from mount, with Lashley doing at least enough work to warrant being there…is crazy. You don’t stand someone up who has his opponent’s back, and you don’t mess with a guy in mount.
Twitter me @kkelchner621
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by Kaleb Kelchner on Aug 22, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true
Did it really make a difference to the fight? Hell No. He was gassed and not finishing in 33 seconds left in mount. And when he came out for round 3, it would have been the same gassed takedown attempt and end of fight.
Does that mean the ref gets a break? fuck no. That was ridiculous. It was like he used the checking of the cut as an excuse to stand them up, cuz he wanted to but didnt want the slack for it. Thats my conspiracy theory
by drunkinmidget781 on Aug 22, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
We have a winner!
Please come and collect your shiny new tinfoil hat! ;)
Unfortunatly we may never know what he was thinking. Maybe he stood them up and went ‘crap that was dumb’ and called the doctor to cover it.
by Roll for Life on Aug 23, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If I didn't care about MMA as much as I do, I'd say that the officiated was laughable.
As it is, it’s just another thing we’re reminded that Dana takes care of so well.
It really is amazing how much shit some people give him. It’s fine to point things out that we think aren’t quite optimal, but my God, that’s a street that has to run both ways if at all.
Really, think about it for a second. Let’s just say that UFC has to shut down tomorrow. Has MMA, as an industry, really gotten any better outside of Zuffa than it was during the PRIDE days? Seems to me we’re looking at a pretty similar development level, which is kinda sad.
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
No it hasn't
That’s because everyone is looking for the quick fix. SF was developing a a nice pace til it got greedy.
Drunk Midget seems to think that the commissions are actually totally independent of the promotions. Dana has established a good relationship with each commission.
/sarcasm
Better known as Black Lesnar
Read me at WatchKalibRun
by S.C. Michaelson on Aug 22, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
