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Around SBN: Phil Mickelson Outshines Tiger Woods

The Benefits of UFC Dominance Over MMA, part 1,732

Every other sports fan in America is spoiled rotten, and MMA fans should demand more.  Football fans take for granted that they will see Tom Brady against a succession of the greatest defensive talent on Earth, assembled by men that have been in and around the game for decades, on a week to week basis.  Baseball fans see Albert Pujols facing down Cy Young candidates on a routine basis and think nothing of it.  Basketball fans knew that the Bulls runs of the 90's were not choreographed or predetermined - they had to earn every win, against hungry clubs that wanted nothing more in the world than to knock of Jordan and company.  These things - the best athletes at their respective games, each tested and at constant risk of being replaced by someone younger, cheaper or better, competing against each other under the same rules time and time again - were, and are, assumed.

MMA - indeed all combat sports - have never been like that.  Nobody looks at the CFL and argues that they have players that would excel in the NFL (Doug Flutie and Warren Moon being notable exceptions - but again, they came to the NFL after proving their worth elsewhere).  You won't hear "hardcore" golf fans arguing that there are guys on the Asian Tour that are jockeying to be the next Tiger, because it's impossible to know until they're actually competing with the best.  Roger Federer was surpassed by Rafael Nadal the only way that it can legitimately happen - by besting him on the biggest stages the sport had to offer at the time.

Instead, a quick overview of the SBN/USAT MMA Rankings (full disclosure: I am a contributor) shows a very different landscape.  According to the rankings, three of the top seven lightweights in the world (Gilbert Melendez, the perennial contender for Most Overrated Fighter On Earth that is Shinya Aoki, and Eddie "My Best Win In The Last Two Years Is Josh Neer" Alvarez) reside outside of the UFC - which is, for those still fighting the nightmares, the premiere MMA league in the world.  There are similar outliers in other divisions - a Jacare here, a Werdum there - but nowhere is the top ten as fractured as it is at 155.  Indeed, for a while there, I had to stuff cotton balls into my ears to stop the blood from flowing because people were arguing that Shinya Aoki was the #1 lightweight in the world.  As long as there exists significant talent outside of the UFC, there will exist extraneous belts that dilute the public understanding and respect for the sport (a la boxing's alphabet belt situation).

The silver lining in all of this is that we're getting there.

Next week, we will see the other four members of the top seven - #1 Frankie Edgar, #2 BJ Penn, #4 Kenny Florian and the tragically underrated #7 Gray Maynard - competing in what is essentially the greatest lightweight tournament in the history of the sport.  Largely lost in the hoopla over Randy Couture vs. James Toney, the two most important fights on the card are unrivaled in terms of talent and relevance for the lightweight division.  For all the bitching you hear from people that like Grand Prixs, there has been absolutely no discussion of this.  Two brackets, #1 v #2 and #4 v #7, with the winners battling in what is sure to be yet another #1 v #2 match-up.  Meanwhile, while Alvarez is preparing to fight a Roger Huerta that has gone 1-3 in his last four fights (2-3 if you count that fat prick Bobino in Texas), the rest of the best are fighting the best of the best.  That's the way I likes it - drug tested, competently overseen, well compensated MMA.  It's just awesome.

Poll
Is this the greatest LW tourney in MMA history?
Yes
57 votes
No - tournaments don't count if they're not one night
16 votes
No - I can name a better one
16 votes

89 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 40 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Pride LWGP. This isn’t even close.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Aug 27, 2010 12:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes and no.

It was so obvious Gomi was going to win.

"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward

by Keren on Aug 27, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I genuinely don’t know who is going to win this thing. That definitely adds to it.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 27, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Florian will beat Maynard.

Regarding Frankie and BJ — I think BJ will win or he will get the shit beaten out of him. I’m fine with both of those.

Plus, Florian and Frankie would be a lot of fun to watch and Florian and BJ would be fun, too. I liked their first fight and I think Florian learned a lot from that.

"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward

by Keren on Aug 27, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whaaaat? A prime Pulver, Mach, Hansen, Yves…the tourney was NOT a gimme for Gomi. He was given an easy path to the finals, but any of those 4 had the ability to beat him.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Aug 27, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't let your fanboy goggles impair your vision!

subo is right about this being the greatest LW tournament ever. in 2005 Pulver was just beginning his slow sad decline into goo, Sakurai was mired in inconsistency and losses to random gracies, Luiz Azeredo was…well Luiz Azeredo and Hellboy was still largely unknown (outside of his win over a bored Takanori Gomi 2 years earlier). The only two legitimate top 5 LW’s in that tournament were Gomi and Kawajiri.

if you believe subo this then ALL 4 participants in this de facto tournament are top 5 guys.

the 2005 GP was probably more awesome, but this is more impressive

my mother was right....no one cares what i have to say

jefferson davis' wife was hot....there i said it....and it actually feels good to finally get that out in the open

by glassjawsh on Aug 27, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fanboy goggles?

Kawajiri was top 10, not top 5 at the time.. As you mentioned, Hellboy already had a win over Gomi and was absolutely “known”. The “random Gracies” outweighed Mach by 25-40 pounds, and he was still a top 5 LW for sure. Yves was the uncrowned UFC LW champ at the time. Jens was still super dangerous. I highly disagree with your assessments here.

http://www.instrength.com

by Tim Burke on Aug 27, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

the 2005 GP was probably more awesome, but this is more impressive

+1

It was also exciting to see Gomi back in action with his Griffin knockout. It brought me back.

"Girls are mean." Lisa Ward

by Keren on Aug 27, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

No way

Sakurai had been a top welter for a long time, he was expected to win.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Kid Nate on Aug 28, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Pride GPs were all great, but the LW one had a couple of serious problems. The first being what the above poster said, Gomi may as well have just been given the giant check and tiny trophy to begin with, because the world’s best weren’t all there (BJ who already had a decisive win over Gomi) which wasn’t the norm for the Pride GPs. which is the second serious problem with it all. As far as current talent goes, in a cage where, you can’t wear Magic JJ pants, Aoki is vastly overrated. Gilbert Melendez and Alvarez would probably get eaten alive by the current talent at 155 in the ufc. So probably, yes, from a competitive standpoint this is probably the best LW tourney ever.

That is until BJ wins the belt again and decides to try GSP one more time.

by Kidroll on Aug 27, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

"the tragically underrated #7 Gray Maynard"

apparently not underrated enough for you to man up subo!

(stifles snarky kidnate comment)

my mother was right....no one cares what i have to say

jefferson davis' wife was hot....there i said it....and it actually feels good to finally get that out in the open

by glassjawsh on Aug 27, 2010 1:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Why not?

4 guys, 2 fights, the winners of those 2 fights are going to fight each other.

Isn’t that exactly the rules that Strikeforce just put a women’s tournament on under? Or are you voting on the “it’s not in one night so it doesn’t count”

by Jason H. on Aug 27, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

1. It’s not advertised as a tournament.

2. It may not actually happen.

3. It’s not in one night.

There are a million reasons. Those are three.

by Jonathan Snowden on Aug 27, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

One night tournaments are horrible anyhow

Nothing is more annoying than the months of “Yeah, but he had the harder fight earlier!” bullshit that follows every one night tournament PRIDE ever held. It’s a cheap way to create demand for a rematch of the tournament final.

by Jason H. on Aug 27, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

1. Who cares?
2. It’s going to happen.
3. Those things are just awful for the sport.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 27, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

You forgot the obvious Jonathan

4. BJ will go back to WW and challenge GSP again after he destroys Edgar.

by Kidroll on Aug 27, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tournaments are one night.

Belator be damned.

Semper Fi'
WatchKalibRun.com
Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on Aug 27, 2010 2:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm fine with calling it a tournament.

Also, I do believe Subo is right in my opinion this is the best four man LW “tournament”.,

Ride the Tiger!

by doonerthesooner on Aug 27, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really tournament but I see what your getting at.

In regards to having a title fight and a title eliminator on the same card all being contested by top 10 fighters.

And by that criteria the WEC has hosted 2 bantamweight tournaments with WEC 47 (my first live mma event) with the fights between Bowles vs Cruz and Benavidez vs Torres and the recent WEC 50 with Cruz vs Benavidez and Jorgenson vs Pickett.

Unfortunately this was contested in the Zuffa promotion with the wrong 2 first letters. I would also venture that featherweight is just as if not more fractured talent wise in regards to top 10 fighters under a Zuffa promotion.

People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.

- Helen Keller

by The Blackula on Aug 27, 2010 3:25 PM EDT reply actions  

there should be a 4th option on the poll

Not really a tournament, but I agree with the concept of the best continuously fighting the best.

People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.

- Helen Keller

by The Blackula on Aug 27, 2010 3:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Das good enough for me.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 27, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unless this “tournament” has something as impressive as Hansen going all out against Edwards & Sakurai in the same night it isn’t even in the same dimension as the PRIDE LWGP.

by wiggles89 on Aug 27, 2010 6:28 PM EDT reply actions  

It has the #1 LW on Earth and will determine the #1 LW on Earth. The LWGP didn’t include or do that.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 27, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

BJ wasn’t a lightweight fighter at the time of the LWGP & wasn’t again until two years after the fact. How didn’t it determine the number one lightweight in the world?

by wiggles89 on Aug 27, 2010 7:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Because BJ fucking clowned the guy that won it?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 27, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um, like I said, BJ wasn’t a lightweight at the time of the tournament. If you wanna prove the LWGP didn’t determine the best lightweight in the world you’re going to have to give me another name. Or perhaps you’d like to tell me how BJ was the best lightweight in the world post-LWGP considering his only fight at lightweight was a year & a half prior against Duane Ludwig.

by wiggles89 on Aug 27, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

BJ wasn't a LW

Because IMO he was trying to prove his p4pness by going up weight classes and taking challenging fights. Because there weren’t any challenging fights at LW for him at the time. As long as he was motivated, that is.

by Kidroll on Aug 27, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

BJ Penn was the best lightweight in the world in 2007. Period.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 27, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

BUT BJ DINT FIGHT IN PRIDE WHERE YOU CAN KICK IN TEH HEADZ SO HE CNT B TEH BEZT IN THE WORLD

sorry just showing that rose colored view off but yeah BJ was/is the best LW on the planet. (Faith no More song title) level of greatness

by Kidroll on Aug 27, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess that means you can’t give me a reason why BJ, with only one lightweight fight in the 19 months preceding, deserved to be the ranked the number one lightweight in the world upon completion of the LWGP. That’s too bad.

by wiggles89 on Aug 27, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

This isn’t a concrete reason why BJ was the best LW in the world but I think the argument will fit. Remember when Michael Jordan went to baseball after the 3rd championship. Nobody doubted that he was the best Basketball player in the world when he wasn’t around Basketball for a year. To this day people say “yeah but MJ wasn’t playing” when they talk about the 2 Rockets championships (though I think that those Rockets would have possibly beaten the Bulls, Jordan or not. but I digress and this isn’t that kinda blog )

And anyone that knows realizes that BJ if he stays at LW through that period would have been considered the best LW at the time of the LWGP.

by Kidroll on Aug 27, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

BJ has always been a LW fighter that just likes to jump weight classes (he fought Machida for gods sake) and yeah as Subo said BJ beat the dogshit out of Gomi. And I think, that all of us that watched MMA during the Pride years have this rose colored view of anything Pride related…I’m guilty of it as much as anyone, but if you think that tourney would have been anything but a victory lap for BJ you are sadly mistaken.

by Kidroll on Aug 27, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

BJ would have destroyed the LWGP

and everyone knows it.

Semper Fi'
WatchKalibRun.com
Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on Aug 27, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do I think BJ would’ve won the tournament? Yeah, probably. But the fact is his last fight at lightweight was 19 months prior to Shockwave 05. Also, I didn’t start watching MMA until UFC 73 so you can’t use the “rose coloured glasses” argument against me.

by wiggles89 on Aug 27, 2010 8:02 PM EDT reply actions  

UFC 73?!?!

your just a young un’ :P

Semper Fi'
WatchKalibRun.com
Pain don't hurt...

by RolloTomasi on Aug 27, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amen

fuck ratings. especially the retarded 155 ratings. a fucking joke.

Even a broken clock is right two times a day.

by Chris Toffer on Aug 27, 2010 10:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Given that White’s reneged on title shot promises before, I don’t see how you can call this a tournament. Otherwise you could just call any set of title and contender matches a tournament (GSP/Koscheck/Fitch/Alves! Greatest welterweight tournament ever! Machida/Shogun/Rampage/Rashad! The best LHW tournament in MMA history! And so on and so forth.)

I would really only qualify something as a tournament if it either takes place on one night or has more than four people in it. “The two winners will probably fight each other later” does not a tournament make.

by Amor on Aug 28, 2010 2:34 PM EDT reply actions  

I do call Lesnar/Couture and Mir/Nog the greatest HW tourney of all time.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Contributor for WatchKalibRun.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com

by Derek Suboticki on Aug 28, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

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